Guest: Justin Jackola, Speaker and Storyteller
Recorded at PMMI’s Young Professionals Conference, this episode dives into how today’s leaders can find balance between ambition, rest, and mental well-being. Motivational speaker Justin Jackola offers real-world ideas for managing stress, setting healthy boundaries, and building habits that help you recharge without losing momentum in your career.
Justin Jackola is an accomplished entrepreneur, strategist, and storyteller who helps individuals and organizations unlock their greatest potential. After founding, growing, and successfully selling a Chicago-based marketing agency, he now shares insights from years of interviewing global leaders and innovators. Through his consulting and speaking, Justin guides teams to redefine purpose, enhance performance, and drive meaningful results with clarity, creativity, and purpose.
Sean Riley: You are listening to Unpacked with PMMI, where we share the latest packaging and processing industry insights, research, and innovations to help you advance your business. Hi, and welcome to Unpacked with PMMI. I'm your host, Sean Riley. Recording at PMMI's Young Professionals Conference, this episode welcomes keynote speaker Justin Jackola. Justin dives into how today's leaders can find the balance between ambition, rest, and mental well-being. The conversation offers real-world actionable ideas for managing stress, setting healthy boundaries, yet building habits that help you recharge without losing any momentum in your career. Let's have a listen. So with all the fancy introductions out of the way, welcome to the podcast, Justin.
Justin Jackola: Thank you very much for having me, Sean. I appreciate it.
Sean Riley: The pleasure is all ours. So you just came off-stage from a wonderful discussion at PMMI's Young Professionals Conference. It really resonated with me. But for our audience at home, let's just jump right in. What initially led you to sell your home, pack up your family, and take a one-year RV trip to find the meaning of life?
Justin Jackola: For me, I had been on the journey for some time. When I was around 21 years old, there were three things that happened in my life that made me go, "Huh, what is this thing called life, and what am I supposed to do with it?" That began a very personal journey to study, a personal journey to look at the ancient philosophies, and to read the science books, and to really ask some of the deepest questions about this life. I wanted to know when I woke up in the morning what I was supposed to do with my life that would be the most beneficial to me? So I spent a lot of time with my nose down in the books where I was just in my basement study, and after 10 years of that, I was like, "You know what? I need to go out into the world and ask these same questions. I need to go speak to these philosophers, these scientists, these historians." And so my wife, my three-year-old, my black lab named Panda, and I all decided to sell the house, sell all the possessions, and go on a one-year RV trip to find the meaning of life. We filmed the entire thing, and have this documentary series that's going to be coming out. I felt like the books could only give you so much. I had to go experience life in a way that I hadn't experienced it, both by living life to the fullest, and doing all the YOLO stuff, you only live once. And then ask some of the smartest people in North America deep questions.
Sean Riley: So you do this for a year. You guys traveled through North America, but after a year, you still need help finding answers. So you set off on your own on this 40-day journey in the Rocky Mountains. Was there a specific moment of clarity that told you you needed to do this?
Justin Jackola: Yeah, it's a great question. The RV trip itself was a blast. We're doing all these amazing things, and going to the national parks, and hiking the waterfalls and living life to the fullest. But doing that for a year with a three-year-old, with a dog, without knowing how to live RV life, don't know what my purpose is. And it was exhausting. It was very exhausting. And so I told my wife, "I need to digest what in the world just happened." And this talk that I did with the Young Professionals Conference was about being able to work hard, but also play hard and rest hard. And so I told her, I said, "Man, I said, my brain is spinning a million miles an hour. The last 10 years have been a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression, a lot of working hard in my personal life and my professional life, and I need a break." The 40 days weren't in the initial plan. I can't tell you why it ended up being 40 days. We were visiting the Midwest, where we were from. We were living in the RV in Colorado at the time. And she said, "Why don't you go now?" I'm like, "We're in the middle of visiting family." And she goes, "You need to go figure some stuff out because I can see how much your head hurt." And so I did. I went to the Rocky Mountains and disappeared for 40 days.
Sean Riley: Very interesting. So you had described it as a way to get back to feeling normal or recognizing what normal is. What did that mean for you at the time, and what does it mean for you now?
Justin Jackola: I think the biggest thing was I had no idea how un-normal my brain was functioning. I had no idea how bad the anxiety and the depression were until I was met with rest. I had a dream. It showed me how numb I was. I didn't like to think of myself as sad or depressed. I was like, "Hey, I'm struggling through some stuff and I'm trying to figure out the meaning of life. So that's a good struggle." And then between that dream and between my 40-day sabbatical, when I started to be able to feel again, when I really got pulled out of that depressive cloud, and I was able to take all the stresses and anxieties of life and put them on the back burner and truly rest, I was like, "Oh, holy cow. My mental health is in a really bad spot, and I need to find a balance in my work life, my personal life, my professional life, and my mental health life."
Sean Riley: Was the normal that you found what you expected?
Justin Jackola: Yeah. Interesting question. I didn't know what to expect. The plan was just to rest. And it was through that I had all these little gifts that were given to me. Some of them were really straightforward. I'm exercising, I'm in sunlight, I'm in nature, breathing fresh air. I'm out of the pollution of the city. All those things that all of us know that we need, but we don't find the time to do it. I was getting all of that. But there were things where it was like my heart revealing to me these hidden secrets that I didn't know about myself, and processing through some past pains, processing through some emotions that I needed to release, such as being angry at people who had hurt me in the past. And I never really allowed myself to be angry. These things just happened, which is one of the reasons I speak on it. Because you can read books on anxiety, you can read books on depression, and those are all great, but there were things that were unique to me, because I rested so well that my brain physiologically healed, which allowed me to think straight and address the real issues that I had in my life.
Sean Riley: You touched on them. You developed these 11 practices. Some of them are what everyone says when talking about how to get rest and how to get rid of anxiety, the exercise, the typical ones that everyone needs. But then you had some like FU day, and timeline journaling and revelatory thinking. Could you touch on those three? And if you had to pick one, which one would it be that people should look to adopt, to work rest into their life?
Justin Jackola: So, a brief explanation of them. So the FU day was on day 19 of my sabbatical, where I woke up and I was really angry, and I had no idea why I was so stinking angry. And after some reflection, I realized, "Oh, there's a lot of pain in my past that I never really addressed." And so it was just this gift that my heart had revealed to me through rest, where I was able to think more clearly, and I was firing on all the synaptic cylinders, literally, physiologically. And I was able to go, "Wow, I need to release some of that anger." And basically yelled at the sky for a day, probably looking like a little bit of a lunatic, but it was just what I needed personally. And then there was creating a timeline of my life where I took an Excel sheet and I said, "Okay, let's categorically outline all the most important parts of my life, in my personal life, in my professional life, in my romantic life, in my possessions that I really enjoyed, like my first car and that type of thing." And that was another thing. I wasn't planning on doing that when I was in the woods. It was my heart and my brain just saying, "Yo, listen up. This is what you need." There was no choice. It was just, "Oh, that's what I need, and then I did it." And that's what rest can truly do. And then the last thing was the revelatory thinking. The revelatory thinking was the last seven days of the sabbatical. I had written in my journal, this has been really amazing. I've had a lot of positive things happen with my mental health, but I still feel like I'm missing something. And it was right after I had journaled that I felt like the universe split open and started spilling me its secrets. I think my brain had been so stressed for well over a decade, that those neural pathways were all broken, and disconnected, and shriveled, all these wires that make up our brain and our ability for one part of our brain to speak to our other part of our brain, they were so weak and disconnected literally, because of all the stress hormones that I was constantly pumping into my life with stressful work and with stressful family life. And so, because of all of that, on day 33 of the sabbatical, I think I had rested so long that I was finally firing on all cylinders, not metaphorical at all. I think my brain literally healed in a physical way, and I was able to think clearly again. But I describe it as a superpower because it was so crazy how clear I could think. Business decisions were boom, no problem. I've been debating for two years. I know the answer. Here's the answer. Personal issues. Everything was just answered. And then there was this level, I call it revelatory thinking. It felt like the universe was just revealing its secrets to me about how I can live better, about how I can relate to humanity, about how I can love better, and rest better, and all of these things. And it was just this really beautiful time of writing in my journal. And then to be able to go back and reflect on that and go, "Oh my gosh, yes. These are things that I can implement into my life that are going to make my work life better and my personal life better."
Sean Riley: Awesome. You said a couple of times during the talk that the goal is not to stop being a good leader but to find the ability to reduce stress and rest while continuing to be a good leader. What are some things they can do while continuing to work but improving their lives by cultivating rest and clarity?
Justin Jackola: Yeah, and I want to double down on what you said. It's not about working less hard. I was receiving some therapy from a wonderful therapist, and she was having me work on slowing down. Let's slow down in your personal life. Let's slow down in your professional life. I did that for like six months and about lost my mind. Because it is not the way that I'm wired. I went to her and I said, "I've been trying for six months to live a more moderate life professionally and personally, but I don't feel like it's working." And she laughs, and she says to me, "I agree. I think that you're wired as a leader. I think you're wired in a way that you're going to go, go, go. But we have to be able to work hard. We have to be able to play hard, but we have to be able to rest hard." And for me, I had a really lovely career for the first 10 to 17 years of my career, and continued to as a film producer and as an inspirational speaker. So 40 days is what I literally needed. That is the definition of resting hard. Now, I'll push back a little bit by saying, I think people can take longer sabbaticals than they think.
Sean Riley: Oh, I agree.
Justin Jackola: Yeah. I think that we fear our schedules, and we're locked into this schedule that we've made up. I think we fear our significant others and how they will react, and these are legitimate reasons. But when it comes to how positively my life was changed through this, I would do it again in a heartbeat. So, to answer the second part of your question regarding some of the things that you can do, the first thing is to learn to do nothing. Even if it's during those 15-minute breaks that your employers usually give you that no one ever takes, but don't take those 15-minute breaks to think about a problem. "Oh, I'm going to concentrate on this one problem." Or, "Oh, I'm going to go drown my brain in TikTok." That's not rest. And that's part of the issue is technology and entertainment. Find time to actually rest, find time to limit your technology. My wife literally has a passcode on my phone and my computer that limits my time on social media, because we're a generation and a nation that's addicted. It's just the reality of it. So I'm trying to put blockades up. So that's something that people can definitely do. For the straightforward things, I talked about my journal several times, journal. It's really reflective. It'll show you how productive you're being in a day. You mentioned it before, the obvious: sleep eight hours a night. But I'm talking directly to the audience. How many of you guys sleep eight hours a night? No one does it. I struggled to do it even before this lovely talk with this great PMMI group today. I'm getting six and a half hours. I'm fighting for seven, and I'm finding myself struggling to want to stay up and do X, Y, and Z, and I have to tell myself, "No, dude, you need the rest. You need the ability for your brain to wash out the neurotoxins that it can only do during sleep." So getting that rest, getting out in nature, is a huge thing. Fresh air, vitamin D, getting out among the beautiful plants. A research study was talking about how the abstract nature of leaves is really healthy for our mental health when you look at it from an evolutionary perspective. That's what we're used to seeing for arguably millions and millions of years. We get away from the symmetry of the bricks, the metal, the bridges, and all of that. That random leafy view actually helps reduce cortisol in the brain, which is a stress hormone that's causing these fight or flight mentalities, getting in nature. And then going back to those more specific things. Try to have consistent FU days. Have these days where you can release some of the anger and the pain, whether it be with your employees or with your family. Just give yourself the permission to cry. Give yourself permission to punch a punching bag a little bit harder while thinking about that thing that person did that they shouldn't have done to you. So having that release. And the timeline is also very helpful. That'll be my last hint: when you create a timeline of your life, just take an Excel sheet, categorize it. Here's the most important professional things, the most important relational things, the most important things that happen. Because I realized when doing that timeline that there was a section of my life that had way more negative in it than I had ever really realized. And just knowing that was insanely beneficial to be able to understand who I was, who I am, and who I'm going to be. So take the sabbaticals, take the vacation days to actually go and rest, not to go to Disneyland and get pumped full of sugar, and kids running around and kicking you in the shins.
Sean Riley: I got you. Fair enough.
Justin Jackola: I just want to say that it's really awesome to me that PMMI would take the time to concentrate that much on people's work-life balance and their mental health. You're saying, "Listen, we're human beings who work in an amazing industry that's extremely challenging, and we have these young leaders who are rocking it out and trying to be the best versions of themselves. And the only way they can do that is by figuring out this work-life balance." So I appreciate you guys being open to that conversation and understanding its value.
Sean Riley: This was great. I appreciate you taking some extra time after your talk to come on here and share this with our listeners. It's a great story, and so thanks again for coming on, Justin.
Justin Jackola: Absolutely.
Sean Riley: Thanks for listening to this episode of Unpacked with PMMI. If you liked what you heard, be sure to follow or subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. That way, you won't miss any of the industry insights coming your way. While you're there, we'd really appreciate a rating or review. Want more? Visit pmmi.org/podcasts for all of our past episodes and additional resources. Thanks again for tuning in. I'll see you next time.
