Sean Riley: So with all the fancy introductions out of the way, welcome to the podcast, Meaghan.
Meaghan Ziemba: Hi.
Sean Riley: And welcome to the podcast, Jake.
Jake: Thank you, thank you. Great to be back.
Sean Riley: Oh, the pleasure is all ours. You've both been on before, so, like you said, it's a pleasure to have you both at the exact same time. So, I guess I'll kick things off with you, Jake. We were talking before we got on the air about how many trade shows and how many events you go to in a year. What automation or robotics trends are you seeing right now that you're expecting to dominate the PACK EXPO show floor?
Jake: Yeah, so there are different levels, I would say. There are the readily available, easy-to-deploy solutions. So, we're going to see a lot of go-to-market palletizing and collaborative robot solutions. I think that was the big thing that we saw at previous PACK EXPOs — that's what I saw earlier this year at PACK EXPO East — was companies that want to be able to go out and have a pre-designed, kitted palletizing robot solution that can get plugged in. And regardless of whether you're in food and packaging, or CPG, or electronics, whatever industry you're in, you have a nice palletizing solution.
Where we're really seeing growth with that is the ease of deployment on the software side. For a long time, robotics, I would say, has been pretty stagnant on the mechanical side for the last three, four, five years. The payloads have been reached, and the speeds have been reached in a lot of areas. It's okay, how easy is it to be able to do a fast product changeover on a line, where, if you're going from a SKU to a different SKU, how hard is it for an operator to change that process? And what we're seeing there is, through softwarit's a lot easier to be able to do end-of-line palletizing and material handling.
And a lot of that is, I would say, because of AI. It's one of those things where, instead of going out there and doing discrete programming processes where, okay, I have to build a certain layer, and then I'm going to shift it up on a Z-axis and then build another layer and then shift it up, there's a lot more smart building behind it, simulation behind it, automated path programming behind it. That's one thing. And then the other thing, I think, from the robotic side as well, is you are going to see a little bit more on the physical AI side of things.
And while packaging, I would say, is a pretty known process ahead of time in terms of the product that you're handling, the material that you're putting in the box, there is going to be more AI in the works of robotics — either from a machine vision, from a picking perspective. You have a lot of your products coming down a conveyor line, and those have to be singulated, put into a stack, and then put into a display shelf container or a box. AI from a robotic side is making it easier to really push productivity, making those robots that you're putting in line more productive across the board and, at the end of the day, more efficient for the customer.
Sean Riley: Interesting. And would you earmark or highlight that AI element, or that element of software, as something that, for someone who isn't an engineer, is a technology shift that's happening right now that they should actually wrap their heads around and sort of start to understand?
Jake: Yeah. The great thing that we're seeing from a software side is two things. One is the risk that's behind an automated system. It doesn't have to be just robots, but the shift behind an automated system is that we're reducing risk for the end user because they have to know less, I would say, in terms of being able to successfully deploy a system. The systems are smarter, where they're designed to build in flexibility on their own. Time to market, I think, is another big thing. When you can go out there and deploy a system — an end-of-line palletizing system that before would take three or four weeks, and now you could do it in two or three days — now, all of a sudden, we're seeing a much better justification when it comes to ROI and deployment on that side. But then, as well, I would say, accessibility to the market.
A lot of times you would have the really large CPG companies that could afford hiring a fully custom integration solution to go out and deploy an end-of-line process. Now companies can go out there and not need the full-blown system integration company, and be able to go out and say, okay, we have an intern in-house, or a kid who just graduated from high school who did FIRST Robotics and understands the basic level of programming, and they can champion that project to success without the needed experience that was needed 10 years ago when it came to robotic deployment.
Sean Riley: Interesting. Okay, speaking of that workforce element, Meaghan, I want to turn towards you. We hear about it constantly — the workforce issues and the upskilling that's necessary. Is there something you think the industry isn't talking about loudly enough right now, or isn't really taking into consideration, when they're discussing workforce?
Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah, so I agree. I think we spend a lot of time talking about the workforce shortage as though the problem is simply that people just aren't interested in manufacturing, and I just don't think that's the case. So, if you take a look at the research that Deloitte and the Manufacturing Institute did, we have 3.8 million workers by 2033, and as many as 1.9 million jobs might go unfilled. So, I think what we need to dig into is why it's not only that we can't get people in, but also why we can't keep them? Because there are a lot of top executives who have said some of the main reasons for their people leaving are because they're leaving for higher pay opportunities.
So, what is it that we're missing when they come into the industry? And I think that goes around what type of training are we providing them, how are we connecting them to better opportunities, how are we moving them up the ladder, how are we connecting them to a sense of purpose, what is the culture like, are you really following the values that you're plastering all over your wall, are you giving them an opportunity to use their own voice and bring their own ideas to the table. So, I think we need to talk more about what happens after we get someone interested in manufacturing and through the door — what are we doing to actually retain them once they get through the door and start working in your facilities?
Sean Riley: Beautiful, I love that. We do a lot of things at PACK EXPO for the generation that's coming in, as well as the generation that's the workforce that's already there, hopefully trying to do some of the things that you mentioned. So, that's aligning up to what we're talking about there. But, I guess, to pivot a little bit, you've attended the shows, you've been an attendee of PACK EXPO — I guess I'm just curious what you think has changed the most about who it is that's walking the floor at PACK EXPO, who the talent is, what levels of experience, the veterans, stuff like that. What have you seen that's different?
Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah, so I think it's a much broader audience. So, you're not only getting the traditional people who are the engineers who work on the equipment and are actually designing the equipment, but you're also getting younger professionals who might be interested in what sort of opportunities are available in packaging and procurement. You're getting students walking through the doors, you're getting women, you're getting content creators like Jake and me. You're also getting people from different parts of the organization, so it's not just one department over the other — it's basically everyone that's involved in the complete organization. And I think you guys, as an association, are tracking that as well, because you had your young professionals networking reception that I heard was a big hit back at PACK EXPO East. And then you also have your Emerging Leaders Network, alongside the Packaging and Processing Women's Leadership Network, which I always get excited about.
So, it's not like these are side conversations that you're having — you're actually designing them as part of the show. So, they're not just side conversations, like side conferences — you're designing it to be part of the bigger conversation that you want people to start having at the show. And I think that changes the conversations from just around the equipment and the processing and the operations. You're also talking about what this means for labor, training, data, maintenance, sustainability, cybersecurity, and the people who will actually have to work within your facility, handling all those processes and operations. So, I think that diversity of perspective really makes the floor way more interesting, and it just makes the conversations all that much more fun.
Sean Riley: Yeah, absolutely. Is that something you think you've seen as well, Jake — where the floor is more diverse, whether it's by age, by demographic?
Jake: Yeah, and as well, I think what people are looking at on the floor is a much broader aspect of the entire packaging and manufacturing process in the industry. As the process within packaging has switched — not just from the physical process of handling goods, it's also the software side as well — and the one thing I would say, going and looking at, and going to PACK EXPO now, I think, for the last 16 years for me, one of the things that I see is a big transformation, not just from the equipment side, but from the software side as well. Manufacturers and companies today can no longer ignore the fact of how critical an entire connected operational system is on the floor — from your production, to a SCADA, to an MES, to your CMMS, to your software that's running your maintenance side, to the MES that's running your entire production ERP. It's one of those things where everything is completely connected now.
And what we see now, walking through PACK EXPO, is that companies are showcasing solutions that are providing everything from the raw good being processed, to its packaging, to its shipping, to its outbound, all the way then from arriving at a customer, going inside a warehouse and logistics center, to a 3PL that's ending up at the door finally. The entire ecosystem is now no longer separated or isolated, where you would have people going to a different trade show to see something from the backend. From a software side, everything is now completely together — from a connected workforce to connected equipment and machinery that's giving full visibility of operations — that's all happening in the same place.
So, for me, the thing I see when I'm going out there and talking to people is, you have just as many people handling the IT side and the data side and the front office of the packaging space as you do on the floor space from the OT side. And I think that's what's really exciting to see — everything's now very much connected, and when people are walking the floor, they want to see that from all the areas.
It's one of those things that I've noticed a lot when I'm traveling and going to shows now — I'm noticing, okay, there are a lot of manufacturers who have a barcode on the side of their equipment that they're showcasing now, saying, "Hey, you're going to scan this barcode, and this is a tool that's going to either go to an AI chatbot that we built a model off of, that operators can have a conversation with on how to fix a fault, to giving maintenance people a tool to run predictive maintenance on, to a better system that's designed around being able to connect to Ignition or some sort of SCADA or MES platform, where, when companies deploy this system, it's not a siloed operation from the beginning — it's part of the much larger ecosystem." And so, I think what we're seeing from a change in the people walking the floor is, going back to it, it's much broader in terms of the full packaging ecosystem that we're seeing in the packaging and manufacturing space.
Meaghan Ziemba: What's important to note, too, is when we initially started having these conversations around artificial intelligence, a lot of it was just reporting — here's all this data. I think now, with all these connections, and the data not being on what were they called, data islands or silo islands, is one of the few terms that I've heard — they're actually providing people a place to actually respond to those reports. So, it's not just giving information for information's sake — they actually have enough data to take action based on what they're seeing on their dashboards.
Sean Riley: From both your standpoints — I'll put this out there for both of you — when you're at the show itself, what's a habit you've picked up that makes your time more valuable, that you've learned keeps you from being someone who's just showing up and trying to wander and see 2,600 exhibitors? What's a trick of the trade that you've picked up?
Meaghan Ziemba: I had to get in the habit of actually doing research on the trends that matter to me. So, I think before you go into any show, you should probably ask yourself: what sort of challenges are you facing, what sort of bottlenecks are you facing, and then do your research on what companies could potentially be a solution for the problem that you're having. So, definitely look at the website, do your research, and wear comfortable shoes. I'm a big fan of bringing your own bottle of water so that you can refill it and keep hydrated.
Jake: Yeah, for me, the biggest thing I go to right away is looking at the show floor plan on the website, registering and getting connected to that, and then going in and adding to the planner all the places I want to go and see. And that goes right to my app, and then, on my phone, on my app — you can download the PACK EXPO app — and then, when I'm going through — we're in Chicago this year — I want to be as efficient as possible going through all those halls. I don't want to be going north and then back to the south and then back to North, and then here for meetings and stuff like that. If I'm going to South, I want to stay in South as long as possible, just because it is a 10, 15-minute walk if you're in the far corner of the South Hall and you need to go up to Lakeside or something like that.
So, for me, getting the app, going out there, finding what companies you want to see, and what solutions you have, is a big thing as well. The other big thing that I look at, too, is, what are my plans after the show? PACK EXPO is great because it brings people together to see a lot of stuff, but then the dinners, the conversations that you get to have, the networking that you get to have throughout the entire week, are just as critical, because that's where a lot of business transactions happen. That's where a lot of conversations happen outside of the booth. So, for me, it's, okay, what are your plans then? Find out where you want to be, because once you're there, things happen so fast and so quickly — that's a big thing.
Sean Riley: I love that. You guys hit a bunch of things that I could see first-timers' mistakes that they would make — not having the My Show Planner, not taking advantage of the app, which I see people that I have to remind of at the show. So, Meaghan, if someone's on the fence about coming to PACK EXPO — we know about a lot of the great things — give me a case on why they should be there, a reason why they need to be at PACK EXPO International.
Meaghan Ziemba: As Jake mentioned before, it's in the McCormick Center, which is what, a million square feet of flooring? And then, how many professionals do you have — over 48,000, 2,600 exhibitors? That alone should be inspiration enough for you to attend, because I don't care what people do — you can be one of those YouTube scrollers, or do as much research as you want to do and attend all the webinars and look at all the printed PDF content, brochures, and specs, and that — it does not compare to face-to-face communication and one-on-one conversations. And this is all the people in the same industry, in one place, at the same time — a question that you might've been harping on for the last six months, on something that was really hanging up your lineup, you can go and have a conversation at one booth, and then, 50 feet down the aisle, have another completely different conversation on something you didn't even think of.
So, I think just having that live, real-time, in-person experience is really beneficial to everyone, even for smaller manufacturers who might not have the budget to invest in some of these technologies, or have been hesitant to invest in some of these technologies because they really don't know a lot about it. So, this gives them an opportunity to speak to the expertise, get their questions answered, and then maybe have a better pitch to their CFO, or whoever's in charge, that's going to approve that major investment for them.
Sean Riley: Yeah, and a thing I always try to harp on, because I speak in the first-timers' lounge for first-timers before the show, is how willing everybody at the show is to talk about the industry. How willing — like you just said — if you're a first-timer or a smaller business, and maybe it isn't the right booth for you, they're probably going to help you or point you in the right direction. It's a very proud industry that likes to share its knowledge about what's out there, and I think that's something that we can't harp on enough — it's something that you experience at PACK EXPO.
Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah, the first time I went, I was very welcomed into this space. I was recently at a food manufacturing event, and they're like, "Oh, once you're in, you're not out." I'm like, "I'm not even an engineer or manufacturer." It's the same feeling that I have in the packaging space, so it's a lot of fun.
Sean Riley: That's awesome, glad to hear that. Jake, what's one thing you would hope that people would walk away from this year's show with, besides closing a deal or something like that? Is it the technology that you talked about? What's one thing that you can think of that should really stick with them when they leave?
Jake: I think, for me, it's that people need to understand how fast the industry moves from a solutions perspective. And I know we hear AI — it's just a buzzword in a lot of cases — but we are really seeing some incredible leaps forward when it comes to what software and new automation and AI can provide in terms of productivity on the production floor. If I were to want people to walk away with something, it would be understanding that they can't go to an event and think that nothing's going to change for another five years.
It is critical, with how fast this industry is moving, to be asking questions, to understand where the constraints are and where that — I guess you could say — where that current wall is, at each year, in terms of capability, and how that wall is getting pushed every year after that. And then, I think the big thing as well is meeting new people in the industry. I'm the biggest advocate for having conversations, for networking, for meeting more people, and learning what they're doing in this space.
And here's the thing — even if you are an introverted person, there are plenty of discussions and panels that you can go and watch, Meag — you can go and watch and learn, and connect with people, and approach them afterwards, and then send them that LinkedIn connection request, saying, "Hey, I really enjoyed your session, this was really good, maybe we can connect down the road to go over a few things on that side." My perspective is: understand that the technology is constantly moving, and continuously build your network and meet new people. People go to these events, connect with them, have conversations — you never know where that's going to take you down the road.
Sean Riley: Beautiful. Meaghan, would you agree? What things do you think should be the most important things that a person would walk away from the show with?
Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah, so I feel like that food critic from Ratatouille — give me some perspective. I really just want people who attend that show to get a perspective. What makes the most sense for your operation? What sort of conversations should you be having? Who should you be connecting to? Again, these shows are around not just for the selling point of things — they're there to let people learn about what's happening in the industry and to learn where it's going.
But I think, too, with the student stuff that you guys are doing, it's a great opportunity for students to learn about what's actually available in engineering and manufacturing. Because when I was in high school, and even when I was in college, I didn't know what opportunities were available in packaging — I had no idea it was even a thing. So, I think it's a great opportunity for kids to show up, learn about what opportunities and career pathways are available to them. Hopefully, parents will show up, or teachers will show up, and teachers can get a better link to the industry so that they can take what they learn back to their schools and link their curriculum to what's actually happening in real time in the industry.
And just have fun — have fun, enjoy Chicago. Like Jake said, there are a lot of good food places there — I know he said deep dish pizza, but there is a pizza pot pie place that's by The Bean area, and they do a pizza pot pie that's really awesome.
Sean Riley: I love that, that's a good tip to leave on. I want to thank you both — I want to thank you, Meaghan, I want to thank you, Jake, for carving some time out during a busy season to come on here and talk to us about the trade show, talk to us about PACK EXPO.
Jake: Thanks for having me.
Meaghan Ziemba: Thanks for having us.
